Comments on: Ayurvedic Heavy Metal

By: dr.ershad

dr.ershad — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 13:54:48 +0000

consult your GP. You can consult an Ayurveda physician if u need to have a Ayurveda medicine.

By: David Bradley

David Bradley — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 13:40:18 +0000

@DP Jolly Please consult your physician.

By: d.p.jolly

d.p.jolly — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 10:28:03 +0000

I am a patient of low hemoglobin. Please let me know if ayurvedic medicine can also bring the hemoglobin further down to a dangerous level. Please reply by mail at the earliest.

By: Dr sanjay k singh

Dr sanjay k singh — Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:35:19 +0000

dear David Bradley, after keen observation u hav given an account on metals and herbo mineral formulations. As a student of Ayurveda I can say that herbo mineral formulations are quiet appropriate in various conditions where various other management fails, or further cripples the patient condition. Herbo mineral formulation validation based on modern parameters has been going on. Certain points i like to add on ur attension are 1. Mercury when enters in body immediatly get converted into sulphide form which is least harmful to body, the same form is used in Ayurveda, along with that it in small amount raise the absorption of other drugs with it removed from body as inert matter. British Pharmocopia shows the use of HgCl and HgCl2 as medicine and not Hgs. Other minerals having similar machenism in small doses, rest on next time. U r free to call them baseless or silly as its ur blog but this very small segment of Ay is still relevent, even today. Its great to read the discussion.

By: drershad ahmed

drershad ahmed — Thu, 20 Aug 2009 19:41:44 +0000

@David Bradley, sir ayurveda doesn’t know about thallium, its recently discovered. Regarding use of metals and minerals in ayurveda, there is a standard mandate to use any metal or mineral, or combination of these, in ayurveda texts there are ref of toxicity of each and every metal or minerals to be used, so is the purification methods (different kinds of procedures, which according to ayurveda detox the metals and minerals and then taken for medicinal usage). I agree that there is more needs to be done in the field of ayurveda like research, pharmacological evaluation, phytochemistry and phytopharmacology, animal trails etc for better understand and to provide broader avenues to ayurveda in the field of medicine. This kind of research will be recognized and highly acclaimed by the international medical societies. Regarding chelating agent etc, bhasmas are incinerated at a constant temp, in constant pressure, in limited oxygen and this would result in the formation of complex compound (Iron Fe into Fes as its done in very limited oxygen, also its easily absorbable and assimilated into human body) rather than a pure metal, the bhasma process is very difficult process to achieve and its possible by an expert only and procedure is repeated several times to attain the quality quoted by the acharyas. There are lot of research being conducted on bhasmas, a sample to it, link – http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/search/savedquery?ID=121193876&action=runQuery&personalisationMenu=true
Is ayurveda a science is a debatable question and i leave that to scholars.
I agree that, there are lot of peoples including ayurveda doctors, who want to make money and I have personally seen many of them mixing modern medicines in ayurveda churnas for better results and to prove that they are good in this system of medicines. I can’t help in that matter.
Ayurveda system never claims to treat diabetis, cancer etc, its the ayurveda doc, any one who claim that they can treat diabetis, cancer etc are just claims unless proven, If they really can treat then, why don’t they go to research institute and get a detailed research done. Currently I am doing research on a anti diabetic preparation of our family (I don’t claim things, i just prove it).
I would appreciate it, if the bloggers use this platform for a healthy discussion rather than fight each other.
Thanks

By: drershad ahmed

drershad ahmed — Thu, 20 Aug 2009 18:54:54 +0000

@Debasis Panigrahi, regarding the ref of the medicines like i said that a herbal preparation is used first, then herbo mineral, and then comes the mineral, all ayurveda doc take books published or available in the market, but our family has the distinction of preserving many of the ancient texts and all are in Telugu language, in one of the book by the name rasabhasmagunadharmalu, he mentions the use as i have stated and in my experience also it has come to light that its better to start with herbal preparations then go for bhasmas, because a simple herbal medicine is more effective than a combination of drugs (yoga or medicine), for ex- in shwitra (vitiligo), application of maricha (piper nigrum)+gomutra(cow’s urine) on the affected area gives u good results clinically than applying haratala(arsenic)+gomutra, a recent research (kings college, London) has concluded that the principle alkoloid piperine of piper nigrum has the effeciency of stimulating melanocyte proliferation in vitro (other alkaloids are also effective). Also internal medication of the same has very good results compared to the use of gandhaka(sulphur), haratala (arsenic), parada (mercury). There are many indirect ref also in many rasa books which need careful evaluation. Regarding the dosage its in correlation with sauvira-5 mg(mercuric chloride), manhashila-10 mg (arsenic ), vanga bhasma-125 mg (or any other bhasma which is milder). Yeah definately there are ref of use of bhasmas for 1-2 years but with cross ref (many other rasa books) and experience makes u understand that there is no use in prescribing the bhasmas for years together, for ex- I have never seen my father prescribing a bhasma for more than 90-150 days, its the highest dose ever given by my father (given only in very chronic cases and most of the time the disease would have subsided by that time) and me too never felt to use bhasma for more than 90 days as the disease would have subsided by that time, more over there is strict mandate for the use of bhasmas for medicinal use. I still use many poisons effectively and its only in emergency conditions and for a short period only, then herbal medicines take over. If there is anything kindly let me know. Thanks.

By: David Bradley

David Bradley — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 08:58:08 +0000

@Debasis I can only get the gist of what you’re saying, but statements that suggest that just because a practice is old means it is good and valid are moot. Any approach should be able to stand up to testing, this has nothing to do with philosophy or god. Moreover, chelating agents are not a modern phenomenon, there are many natural chelating agents (where do you think chemists got their inspiration for making them?)

By: Debasis Panigrahi

Debasis Panigrahi — Tue, 04 Aug 2009 13:08:51 +0000

Dear David Bradley, kindly note that the mode of action of many things are not known till yet, by the morden science also. By that way we can,t explain every bit of our process, If you are really intersted then kindly go through our classics & you will definietly find something you wish to know.Neither we use the term cheleting agents or we deliberatly use them in our preparations. The so called cheleting agent term is the discovery of todays world,but we in ayurveda use this from the origin of our system.Yes I am agree that Ayurveda is Philosophy or knowledge, when Science ends then Philosophy or GOD starts. Science is also ever changing.Old things are never silly, they are time tested for many many centuries so that thier existance could be found otherwise must have been vanished by Society.

By: Debasis Panigrahi

Debasis Panigrahi — Tue, 04 Aug 2009 12:47:25 +0000

Dear dr.ershad ahmed ,I can’t find any referance in ayurveda about the order of use Herbal, herbo-mineral & mineral preparation as you are quoting. Whre are you find the ref. If possible let me know.Another thing about the doses – Where are you collect the ref. of these doses 5mg, 10 mg to 120 mg & for a period of 1 week to 15-20 days. There are references of taking Metalic preparation for 1-2 years , for example you can get it from Rasarnava or in Astangasamraha where metalic preparation of Chalcopyrite,Iron,Mercury & gold etc are recomended.You are right that now- a-days we are not taking care of Proper Bhasma preparation. So that some zero knowledge, non ayurveda & unadeqetly educated ayurveda people are Dishonoring the glory of Rasa-Rasayana & Metalic preparation like Bhasma & Sindoora

By: dr.ershad ahmed

dr.ershad ahmed — Tue, 21 Jul 2009 10:30:15 +0000

I can see that most of the news letters mention of heavy metals in ayurveda medicines, but no one mentions or has done research on how ayurveda uses it, ayurveda never teaches to use heavy metals for medicinal purposes as a primary treatment but it emphasizes on use of herbal preparations first, then herbo mineral preparations and if there are no improvement in the disease, then comes the use of metals and minerals in the dosage of 5mg, 10mg, to a maximum of 120 mg/ day (not per kg body weight) for not more that 1 week or a maximum of 15 to 21 days, then the use of metals and minerals is completely seized. Moreover there are very thin no of peoples who can effective prepare a metallic preparations (like bhasmas) for medicinal uses. I have scientific analysis of the metallic bhasmas i have prepared and effectively used it in my treatment.