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	<title>Comments on: Just say no to sunscreen nanophobia!</title>
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	<link>http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/just-say-no-to-sunscreen-nanophobia.html</link>
	<description>Science Blog from Freelance Science Writer David Bradley</description>
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		<title>By: David Bradley</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/just-say-no-to-sunscreen-nanophobia.html/comment-page-2#comment-637443</link>
		<dc:creator>David Bradley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jul 2010 07:12:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/?p=5853#comment-637443</guid>
		<description>@Eurail Who are *they&quot; and what are they &quot;telling&quot; us about anything? Did you know paying too much attention to tabloid scaremongering can cause paranoid neuroticism?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Eurail Who are *they&#8221; and what are they &#8220;telling&#8221; us about anything? Did you know paying too much attention to tabloid scaremongering can cause paranoid neuroticism?</p>
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		<title>By: eurail</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/just-say-no-to-sunscreen-nanophobia.html/comment-page-2#comment-637442</link>
		<dc:creator>eurail</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jul 2010 05:58:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/?p=5853#comment-637442</guid>
		<description>Makes you wonder what they will be telling us in 5 years about the products we have today that are supposedly the &quot;good, safe&#039; stuff!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Makes you wonder what they will be telling us in 5 years about the products we have today that are supposedly the &#8220;good, safe&#8217; stuff!</p>
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		<title>By: David Bradley</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/just-say-no-to-sunscreen-nanophobia.html/comment-page-2#comment-637440</link>
		<dc:creator>David Bradley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jul 2010 16:14:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/?p=5853#comment-637440</guid>
		<description>Regarding environmental effects, I think the environmental impact of people jumping into jet aircraft to fly to sunny beaches is far greater than worrying about nanoparticles that probably do not persist on the nano scale once rubbed off in the sea or on the sand...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding environmental effects, I think the environmental impact of people jumping into jet aircraft to fly to sunny beaches is far greater than worrying about nanoparticles that probably do not persist on the nano scale once rubbed off in the sea or on the sand&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: ideotektonic</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/just-say-no-to-sunscreen-nanophobia.html/comment-page-1#comment-637439</link>
		<dc:creator>ideotektonic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jul 2010 14:28:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/?p=5853#comment-637439</guid>
		<description>RE: Am I missing something here? 

Activists reactions seem do seem overly sensitive, if the effects of nano-particles on humans is the only concern with sunscreen use. But what I missed from your article is the effects of this new technology on the environment: the seas, lakes, rivers, sands, marshes and wildlife. Excessive sunscreen use alone is a problem in many ecosystems frequented by large amounts of humans during certain seasons, without the addition of new  unknown potentials for disruption. 

Is this a factor in any of these companies&#039; decisions to scale back nanoparticle use? Is there any research done on this? What&#039;s even more interesting to me as a layperson: is there any government regulation requiring companies to think about their product&#039;s effects on anything but their customers or consumers?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE: Am I missing something here? </p>
<p>Activists reactions seem do seem overly sensitive, if the effects of nano-particles on humans is the only concern with sunscreen use. But what I missed from your article is the effects of this new technology on the environment: the seas, lakes, rivers, sands, marshes and wildlife. Excessive sunscreen use alone is a problem in many ecosystems frequented by large amounts of humans during certain seasons, without the addition of new  unknown potentials for disruption. </p>
<p>Is this a factor in any of these companies&#8217; decisions to scale back nanoparticle use? Is there any research done on this? What&#8217;s even more interesting to me as a layperson: is there any government regulation requiring companies to think about their product&#8217;s effects on anything but their customers or consumers?</p>
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		<title>By: Hilary Sutcliffe</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/just-say-no-to-sunscreen-nanophobia.html/comment-page-1#comment-637430</link>
		<dc:creator>Hilary Sutcliffe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jul 2010 11:06:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/?p=5853#comment-637430</guid>
		<description>I think the issue is that they are using the unique properties of the materials at the nano scale which aren&#039;t exhibited at the larger scale - ie clearness - so the concern is that there are other properties which come with that, which may make using them at this scale less safe than previous.  As you know much better than I, some materials become more volatile or more easily absorbed by our bodies at the nanoscale, or by virtue of their use more ubiquitous in the environment, so it&#039;s is the new characteristics and the new usage which need to be understood and safety testing conducted.  

Yes agree that if the word &#039;nano&#039; hadn&#039;t been invented, it may have passed by unnoticed, but you can thank the scientists chasing funding for that!  On the other hand, old materials used in a new way with new properties would always have been called something, though would perhaps have been the focus of more case by case scrutiny rather than blanket coverage.

Prof Richard Jones of Univ Sheffield suggests an excellent &#039;precautionary&#039; framework which would be very useful in either instance on Andrew Maynard&#039;s blog:  He suggests we consider:

*  what are the benefits that the new technology provides – what are the risks and uncertainties   associated with not realising these benefits?
*  what are the risks and uncertainties attached to any current ways we have of realising these benefits using existing technologies?
*  what are the risks and uncertainties of the new technology?


Read more: http://2020science.org/2010/07/18/the-safety-of-nanotechnology-based-sunscreens-some-reflections/#more-3444#ixzz0uVCfdW2u</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the issue is that they are using the unique properties of the materials at the nano scale which aren&#8217;t exhibited at the larger scale &#8211; ie clearness &#8211; so the concern is that there are other properties which come with that, which may make using them at this scale less safe than previous.  As you know much better than I, some materials become more volatile or more easily absorbed by our bodies at the nanoscale, or by virtue of their use more ubiquitous in the environment, so it&#8217;s is the new characteristics and the new usage which need to be understood and safety testing conducted.  </p>
<p>Yes agree that if the word &#8216;nano&#8217; hadn&#8217;t been invented, it may have passed by unnoticed, but you can thank the scientists chasing funding for that!  On the other hand, old materials used in a new way with new properties would always have been called something, though would perhaps have been the focus of more case by case scrutiny rather than blanket coverage.</p>
<p>Prof Richard Jones of Univ Sheffield suggests an excellent &#8216;precautionary&#8217; framework which would be very useful in either instance on Andrew Maynard&#8217;s blog:  He suggests we consider:</p>
<p>*  what are the benefits that the new technology provides – what are the risks and uncertainties   associated with not realising these benefits?<br />
*  what are the risks and uncertainties attached to any current ways we have of realising these benefits using existing technologies?<br />
*  what are the risks and uncertainties of the new technology?</p>
<p>Read more: <a href="http://2020science.org/2010/07/18/the-safety-of-nanotechnology-based-sunscreens-some-reflections/#more-3444#ixzz0uVCfdW2u" rel="nofollow">http://2020science.org/2010/07/18/the-safety-of-nanotechnology-based-sunscreens-some-reflections/#more-3444#ixzz0uVCfdW2u</a></p>
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		<title>By: David Bradley</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/just-say-no-to-sunscreen-nanophobia.html/comment-page-1#comment-637429</link>
		<dc:creator>David Bradley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:22:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/?p=5853#comment-637429</guid>
		<description>I wonder whether the companies are simply victims of naive marketing, they&#039;re just zinc oxide and titania particles that happen to be in the nano range (which can be stretched to several hundred nanometres when it suits (grant applications etc). If nano hadn&#039;t been a buzzword I suspect they would never have mentioned it and the perceived risks would never have changed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder whether the companies are simply victims of naive marketing, they&#8217;re just zinc oxide and titania particles that happen to be in the nano range (which can be stretched to several hundred nanometres when it suits (grant applications etc). If nano hadn&#8217;t been a buzzword I suspect they would never have mentioned it and the perceived risks would never have changed.</p>
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		<title>By: Hilary Sutcliffe</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/just-say-no-to-sunscreen-nanophobia.html/comment-page-1#comment-637411</link>
		<dc:creator>Hilary Sutcliffe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jul 2010 15:31:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/?p=5853#comment-637411</guid>
		<description>David, whilst I agree that there now appears to be little to concern us about nano sunscreens, most of this evidence is relatively recent, while nano sunscreens have been around for some time, some say up to 20 years.  Until these studies were published there appeared to be little to go on in terms of judging safety, and even when published they are quite tricky to interpret effectively by the non-scientist which I concluded from Andrew’s comments.   Before these studies all that the lay person and other non-experts had to go on was a widely voiced concern from scientists and others about the potential uncertainties around nano particles of all materials and companies telling us not to worry as they had it all covered.  I don’t think it is surprising that non-expert stakeholders got concerned.  

I also agree that some stakeholders, and FOE is perhaps as guilty of this as many others, do choose their evidence to support their world view, which is also unhelpful for the public.  

However, what I would have really liked to see, instead of ranting from all sides (and sorry David, I am classing this contribution in that vein, a few too many sweeping statements!) was patient, easy to understand explanations, information clearly communicated by scientists and companies about the testing they have done to ensure these products are safe for us all, perhaps articles in the women’s mags or in supermarkets, with information about the science behind the nano sunscreens and why they are safe and an improvement.  Not scientists scoring points by trying to make a splash with dubious extrapolations about research and companies remaining totally silent.  Why is that so hard?

Sometimes I think that the increasing lack of trust in business and science is richly deserved!  Let&#039;s hope it improves</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, whilst I agree that there now appears to be little to concern us about nano sunscreens, most of this evidence is relatively recent, while nano sunscreens have been around for some time, some say up to 20 years.  Until these studies were published there appeared to be little to go on in terms of judging safety, and even when published they are quite tricky to interpret effectively by the non-scientist which I concluded from Andrew’s comments.   Before these studies all that the lay person and other non-experts had to go on was a widely voiced concern from scientists and others about the potential uncertainties around nano particles of all materials and companies telling us not to worry as they had it all covered.  I don’t think it is surprising that non-expert stakeholders got concerned.  </p>
<p>I also agree that some stakeholders, and FOE is perhaps as guilty of this as many others, do choose their evidence to support their world view, which is also unhelpful for the public.  </p>
<p>However, what I would have really liked to see, instead of ranting from all sides (and sorry David, I am classing this contribution in that vein, a few too many sweeping statements!) was patient, easy to understand explanations, information clearly communicated by scientists and companies about the testing they have done to ensure these products are safe for us all, perhaps articles in the women’s mags or in supermarkets, with information about the science behind the nano sunscreens and why they are safe and an improvement.  Not scientists scoring points by trying to make a splash with dubious extrapolations about research and companies remaining totally silent.  Why is that so hard?</p>
<p>Sometimes I think that the increasing lack of trust in business and science is richly deserved!  Let&#8217;s hope it improves</p>
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		<title>By: CoCreatr</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/just-say-no-to-sunscreen-nanophobia.html/comment-page-1#comment-637410</link>
		<dc:creator>CoCreatr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jul 2010 14:29:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/?p=5853#comment-637410</guid>
		<description>Reminds of the fear propagated in the 1800s of people dying from the awesome speed - much faster than horses - of the first steam trains.  While this fear was proven to be unfounded, trains are safe, but not perfectly safe. We still have wrecks, occasionally. Nothing is 100% safe, and suggesting so would be reprehensible.

The point is to present the science as it is available (incomplete and emergent - tomorrow we usually know more than today) and help the public make informed choices. Some take the risk, some don&#039;t, and the experiment can continue.   

A better labeling could be 

USE CAUTION This product helps protect your skin from sunlight by absorbing the energy of UV radiation. Prolonged exposure or incomplete application on skin may negate protective effects. This product contains nanoparticles (around 20 nm). Scientific findings suggest particles of the specified size will only be absorbed by the upper layer of dead skin cells and not enter body circulation. 

Reading &quot;primary particle sizes&quot; I conclude that smaller particles may occur and some can get absorbed, so we are back at square one whether the perceived risk is big or small, but now it is up to the customer to decide and experiment.  Until science brings more usable findings as I am sure will happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reminds of the fear propagated in the 1800s of people dying from the awesome speed &#8211; much faster than horses &#8211; of the first steam trains.  While this fear was proven to be unfounded, trains are safe, but not perfectly safe. We still have wrecks, occasionally. Nothing is 100% safe, and suggesting so would be reprehensible.</p>
<p>The point is to present the science as it is available (incomplete and emergent &#8211; tomorrow we usually know more than today) and help the public make informed choices. Some take the risk, some don&#8217;t, and the experiment can continue.   </p>
<p>A better labeling could be </p>
<p>USE CAUTION This product helps protect your skin from sunlight by absorbing the energy of UV radiation. Prolonged exposure or incomplete application on skin may negate protective effects. This product contains nanoparticles (around 20 nm). Scientific findings suggest particles of the specified size will only be absorbed by the upper layer of dead skin cells and not enter body circulation. </p>
<p>Reading &#8220;primary particle sizes&#8221; I conclude that smaller particles may occur and some can get absorbed, so we are back at square one whether the perceived risk is big or small, but now it is up to the customer to decide and experiment.  Until science brings more usable findings as I am sure will happen.</p>
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