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	<title>Comments on: Nutraceutical News</title>
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	<description>Science Blog from Freelance Science Writer David Bradley</description>
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		<title>By: David Bradley</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/nutraceutical-nonsense.html/comment-page-1#comment-586588</link>
		<dc:creator>David Bradley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 09:08:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/?p=1670#comment-586588</guid>
		<description>Frank, you say &quot;most&quot;, but who&#039;s to know, if they&#039;re not being tested independently. Either way, a firm can do all the QA/QC it likes on a product, but if that product has no physiological/medicinal activity, then it&#039;s irrelevant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frank, you say &#8220;most&#8221;, but who&#8217;s to know, if they&#8217;re not being tested independently. Either way, a firm can do all the QA/QC it likes on a product, but if that product has no physiological/medicinal activity, then it&#8217;s irrelevant.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank @ NuPro</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/nutraceutical-nonsense.html/comment-page-1#comment-586535</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank @ NuPro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 07:29:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/?p=1670#comment-586535</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think it&#039;s the quality of the products being produced as most nutraceutical companies provide a very quality organic product (even if they do sound like car salesmen)...  but the question often comes about with FDA approval, testing and bottom line: results.  Many aren&#039;t vetted properly which unfortunately gives the industry that I make a living on a bad name.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s the quality of the products being produced as most nutraceutical companies provide a very quality organic product (even if they do sound like car salesmen)&#8230;  but the question often comes about with FDA approval, testing and bottom line: results.  Many aren&#8217;t vetted properly which unfortunately gives the industry that I make a living on a bad name.</p>
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		<title>By: David Bradley</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/nutraceutical-nonsense.html/comment-page-1#comment-454695</link>
		<dc:creator>David Bradley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 09:06:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/?p=1670#comment-454695</guid>
		<description>Most certainly Gerald, I do believe that the answer to my question lies somewhere in between, like you say it&#039;s not clearcut and yes, indeed, hundreds of pharmaceuticals are of herbal, marine, animal, vegetable, and nutritional origin and continue to be so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most certainly Gerald, I do believe that the answer to my question lies somewhere in between, like you say it&#8217;s not clearcut and yes, indeed, hundreds of pharmaceuticals are of herbal, marine, animal, vegetable, and nutritional origin and continue to be so.</p>
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		<title>By: Gerald Lo</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/nutraceutical-nonsense.html/comment-page-1#comment-454692</link>
		<dc:creator>Gerald Lo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 09:01:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/?p=1670#comment-454692</guid>
		<description>Is there room for the category to end up somewhere in between?

I was surprised at the myriad routes to discovery of prospective commercially viable active pharmaceutical ingredients, a powerful lot of which seem to derive from natural sources, many of which are reckoned to constitute foods in some parts of the world.

The mechanistic infrastructure of scientific observation and the posting of models to represent behavior depends on observation of phenomena and the hypothesis of explanatory theory, as I understand it.

When the consumption of ephedra killed enough people, folks began to take that one pretty darned seriously.

A good deal of what people eat, breath or absorb through their skins seem to end up in the liver, the body&#039;s filter, at one point or another according to my very rudimentary understanding of anatomy.

What those substances conspire to do together there and in the bloodstream can sometimes get kind of difficult to predict, as there seems to be a powerful amount of variation in what different people will do, eat and drink at different times.

There&#039;s a Chinese sensibility that all food has medicinal properties, some yang (or positive, termed &quot;heating&quot;) and others yin, believed to be &quot;cooling.&quot; The traditional &quot;five elements&quot; school of medicine holds the liver to represent a positive vessel of yang essence, analogous to the element of wood.

Seems to make as plausible a model as any, I reckon.

I think there may be ample opportunity for this area to become both big business and for certain parts of it to end in tears for all concerned, just as energy and transportation and commodities and realty have ebbed and flowed over time.

Horatio: &quot;O day and night, but this is wondrous strange.&quot;

Hamlet: &quot;And therefore as a stranger give it welcome. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.&quot;

Links:
http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks/pathphys/digestion/liver/
http://www.healthcentral.com/peoplespharmacy/pp_guides/PDF/gfruit02.pdf
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1025277/Quack-medicine-Peking-duck-better-heart-statins.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is there room for the category to end up somewhere in between?</p>
<p>I was surprised at the myriad routes to discovery of prospective commercially viable active pharmaceutical ingredients, a powerful lot of which seem to derive from natural sources, many of which are reckoned to constitute foods in some parts of the world.</p>
<p>The mechanistic infrastructure of scientific observation and the posting of models to represent behavior depends on observation of phenomena and the hypothesis of explanatory theory, as I understand it.</p>
<p>When the consumption of ephedra killed enough people, folks began to take that one pretty darned seriously.</p>
<p>A good deal of what people eat, breath or absorb through their skins seem to end up in the liver, the body&#8217;s filter, at one point or another according to my very rudimentary understanding of anatomy.</p>
<p>What those substances conspire to do together there and in the bloodstream can sometimes get kind of difficult to predict, as there seems to be a powerful amount of variation in what different people will do, eat and drink at different times.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a Chinese sensibility that all food has medicinal properties, some yang (or positive, termed &#8220;heating&#8221;) and others yin, believed to be &#8220;cooling.&#8221; The traditional &#8220;five elements&#8221; school of medicine holds the liver to represent a positive vessel of yang essence, analogous to the element of wood.</p>
<p>Seems to make as plausible a model as any, I reckon.</p>
<p>I think there may be ample opportunity for this area to become both big business and for certain parts of it to end in tears for all concerned, just as energy and transportation and commodities and realty have ebbed and flowed over time.</p>
<p>Horatio: &#8220;O day and night, but this is wondrous strange.&#8221;</p>
<p>Hamlet: &#8220;And therefore as a stranger give it welcome. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.&#8221;</p>
<p>Links:<br />
<a href="http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks/pathphys/digestion/liver/" rel="nofollow">http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks/pathphys/digestion/liver/</a><br />
<a href="http://www.healthcentral.com/peoplespharmacy/pp_guides/PDF/gfruit02.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.healthcentral.com/peoplespharmacy/pp_guides/PDF/gfruit02.pdf</a><br />
<a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1025277/Quack-medicine-Peking-duck-better-heart-statins.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1025277/Quack-medicine-Peking-duck-better-heart-statins.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: David Lustig</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/nutraceutical-nonsense.html/comment-page-1#comment-453384</link>
		<dc:creator>David Lustig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 15:35:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/?p=1670#comment-453384</guid>
		<description>The two options in your question aren&#039;t mutually exclusive. Nutraceuticals can indeed be both The Next Great Thing and quackery at the same time.

With good marketing, you can sell anything. The Next Great Thing.

Unfortunately, much of that world is based on unproven claims. Anecdotal stories are not a substitute for double blind, placebo controlled clinical trials. The problem is that trials like these cost an enormous amount of money, which is problematic when the agent being tested is a low priced commodity.

There are certainly some success stories. Niacin, also known as vitamin B, does indeed raise HDL - the good cholesterol. But because it has the problem of facial flushing (itchy redness) as a side effect at the efficacious dose for many people, it&#039;s not easy to just go to the drug store and buy a substitute. Pharmaceutical companies have come up with solutions to the flushing issue and are selling them as proprietary prescription drugs. The ability to make money off of it allowed for the clinical trials to prove that it does indeed raise HDL (though no one has yet done an outcomes trial to see if that does actually increase longevity or decrease cardiovascular events).

Anecdotally, though with some clinical trial results, Vitamin C in doses of 2000 - 3000 mg a day will also raise HDL. But with Vitamin C, there are no issues to solve with products that aren&#039;t already available at the grocery store, so it&#039;s unlikely that rigorous trials will ever be conducted unless it&#039;s in combination with another drug like a statin for a combo pill that lowers LDL and raises HDL.

One could argue that clinical trials should be sponsored by the government as a matter of public health. Though where does that leave the nutraceutical business? At best, each company will compete against all others as a commodity (imagine a drug with hundreds of generics on the market).

So that comes full circle back to marketing. Nutraceuticals will sell well for companies that have effective marketing campaigns, regardless of whether there is a true health benefit or not..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The two options in your question aren&#8217;t mutually exclusive. Nutraceuticals can indeed be both The Next Great Thing and quackery at the same time.</p>
<p>With good marketing, you can sell anything. The Next Great Thing.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, much of that world is based on unproven claims. Anecdotal stories are not a substitute for double blind, placebo controlled clinical trials. The problem is that trials like these cost an enormous amount of money, which is problematic when the agent being tested is a low priced commodity.</p>
<p>There are certainly some success stories. Niacin, also known as vitamin B, does indeed raise HDL &#8211; the good cholesterol. But because it has the problem of facial flushing (itchy redness) as a side effect at the efficacious dose for many people, it&#8217;s not easy to just go to the drug store and buy a substitute. Pharmaceutical companies have come up with solutions to the flushing issue and are selling them as proprietary prescription drugs. The ability to make money off of it allowed for the clinical trials to prove that it does indeed raise HDL (though no one has yet done an outcomes trial to see if that does actually increase longevity or decrease cardiovascular events).</p>
<p>Anecdotally, though with some clinical trial results, Vitamin C in doses of 2000 &#8211; 3000 mg a day will also raise HDL. But with Vitamin C, there are no issues to solve with products that aren&#8217;t already available at the grocery store, so it&#8217;s unlikely that rigorous trials will ever be conducted unless it&#8217;s in combination with another drug like a statin for a combo pill that lowers LDL and raises HDL.</p>
<p>One could argue that clinical trials should be sponsored by the government as a matter of public health. Though where does that leave the nutraceutical business? At best, each company will compete against all others as a commodity (imagine a drug with hundreds of generics on the market).</p>
<p>So that comes full circle back to marketing. Nutraceuticals will sell well for companies that have effective marketing campaigns, regardless of whether there is a true health benefit or not..</p>
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		<title>By: Susan Otterson</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/nutraceutical-nonsense.html/comment-page-1#comment-453149</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan Otterson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 07:12:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/?p=1670#comment-453149</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think you can lump it all together. Sure, some of it is quackery, but a lot of it has good research behind it. Just remember that you can&#039;t prove a negative. When you see an article in the news that says &quot;Vitamin C does not help flu symptoms&quot; you have to realize that you can never prove that something does not work. There is a lot of disinformation, probably from big pharma, trying to get people to not use alternative medicine. Nutrition is an elective class in Med School, it is not a requirement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think you can lump it all together. Sure, some of it is quackery, but a lot of it has good research behind it. Just remember that you can&#8217;t prove a negative. When you see an article in the news that says &#8220;Vitamin C does not help flu symptoms&#8221; you have to realize that you can never prove that something does not work. There is a lot of disinformation, probably from big pharma, trying to get people to not use alternative medicine. Nutrition is an elective class in Med School, it is not a requirement.</p>
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		<title>By: Evelyn Cadman</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/nutraceutical-nonsense.html/comment-page-1#comment-453147</link>
		<dc:creator>Evelyn Cadman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 07:11:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/?p=1670#comment-453147</guid>
		<description>In my view the dietary supplement/nutraceutical sector is now a mature industry. The Dietary Supplement Health Education Act (DSHEA) was signed into law by President Clinton in 1994. As a result of this legislation, FDA promulgated regulations on labeling, Good Manufacturing Practices and Adverse Event Reporting and has issued guidelines on claim substantiation and other important topics. The NIH has established National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine (NCCAM) and provides grant money to study nutraceuticals and other alternative health modalities. A number of universities also have programs that contribute to the body of knowledge on vitamins, minerals and herbs.

The dietary supplement industry has experienced business cycles typical of growing and maturing sectors. Sales soared for a number of years in the 1990’s. Sales leveled off and the industry experienced a great deal of consolidation. The maturity of the industry can also be seen in the recent initiative by the Council for Responsible Nutrition (CRN) and the National Advertising Division of the Council of Better Business Bureaus (NAD) to create a pathway for responsible industry members to challenge advertising that does accurately reflect the state of the science in the area and therefore does not comply with FDA (and FTC) regulations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my view the dietary supplement/nutraceutical sector is now a mature industry. The Dietary Supplement Health Education Act (DSHEA) was signed into law by President Clinton in 1994. As a result of this legislation, FDA promulgated regulations on labeling, Good Manufacturing Practices and Adverse Event Reporting and has issued guidelines on claim substantiation and other important topics. The NIH has established National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine (NCCAM) and provides grant money to study nutraceuticals and other alternative health modalities. A number of universities also have programs that contribute to the body of knowledge on vitamins, minerals and herbs.</p>
<p>The dietary supplement industry has experienced business cycles typical of growing and maturing sectors. Sales soared for a number of years in the 1990’s. Sales leveled off and the industry experienced a great deal of consolidation. The maturity of the industry can also be seen in the recent initiative by the Council for Responsible Nutrition (CRN) and the National Advertising Division of the Council of Better Business Bureaus (NAD) to create a pathway for responsible industry members to challenge advertising that does accurately reflect the state of the science in the area and therefore does not comply with FDA (and FTC) regulations.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Kilty</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/nutraceutical-nonsense.html/comment-page-1#comment-452541</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Kilty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 15:05:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/?p=1670#comment-452541</guid>
		<description>In my mind the science seems potentially solid, but the telling indicator of of quackery would likely be the business model.

If it&#039;s an MLM(multi-level marketing) or in slang &quot;pyramid scheme&quot; then very frequently you&#039;re purchasing &quot;snake oil&quot;. If the product is produced and sold through traditional means by a reputable nutritional supplement company like EAS for example, the product quality would increase significantly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my mind the science seems potentially solid, but the telling indicator of of quackery would likely be the business model.</p>
<p>If it&#8217;s an MLM(multi-level marketing) or in slang &#8220;pyramid scheme&#8221; then very frequently you&#8217;re purchasing &#8220;snake oil&#8221;. If the product is produced and sold through traditional means by a reputable nutritional supplement company like EAS for example, the product quality would increase significantly.</p>
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		<title>By: Phyllis Adams</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/nutraceutical-nonsense.html/comment-page-1#comment-451314</link>
		<dc:creator>Phyllis Adams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 16:19:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/?p=1670#comment-451314</guid>
		<description>At the end of the day, as it concerns Nutraceuticals, I believe that people interested in supplementing their diet should consult a Naturopathic Doctor.

My Naturopath was able to easily cut through the &quot;bull&quot; and give me proper direction in this area. A mulivitamin, some probiotics and some ground flax seed daily in addition to a few diet changes have all been a boon to my health.

Just as Family Physicians are experts in pharmaceuticals, Naturopaths are experts in Nutraceuticals.

I highly recommend this type of consult for anyone.

Thanks for the discussion,
Phyllis</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At the end of the day, as it concerns Nutraceuticals, I believe that people interested in supplementing their diet should consult a Naturopathic Doctor.</p>
<p>My Naturopath was able to easily cut through the &#8220;bull&#8221; and give me proper direction in this area. A mulivitamin, some probiotics and some ground flax seed daily in addition to a few diet changes have all been a boon to my health.</p>
<p>Just as Family Physicians are experts in pharmaceuticals, Naturopaths are experts in Nutraceuticals.</p>
<p>I highly recommend this type of consult for anyone.</p>
<p>Thanks for the discussion,<br />
Phyllis</p>
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		<title>By: Hamish Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/nutraceutical-nonsense.html/comment-page-1#comment-451206</link>
		<dc:creator>Hamish Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 14:16:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/?p=1670#comment-451206</guid>
		<description>Cynical Marketing ploy or Science Reinforcing observation of Mother Nature?

&quot;Marigold is a true folk remedy with a long history of use, probably back to ancient times. It continues to be used to this day and is approved by the German commission as an antiseptic and to heal wounds. Dukes Ethnobotanical reference lists it as a pain killer (analgesic). It is widely accepted as a treatment for nappy rash. Some folk remedies are simply twaddle. Others have never been properly investigated. But there are some that have been investigated scientifically to be truly effective, and marigold is one of them. Marigold has been the subject of extensive research and has been shown to have anti-inflammatory properties. It is even known in some detail how it might work. Pentacyclic triterpene trihydroxyalcohols, flavonoids, and saponins have been isolated from it, and these are believed to stimulate granulation and increase glycoprotein and collagen metabolism at wound sites. It also shows in vitro antimicrobial and immune-modulating properties.&quot;

What&#039;s the difference between the above statement and what I posted earlier - Scientific Marketing or what?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cynical Marketing ploy or Science Reinforcing observation of Mother Nature?</p>
<p>&#8220;Marigold is a true folk remedy with a long history of use, probably back to ancient times. It continues to be used to this day and is approved by the German commission as an antiseptic and to heal wounds. Dukes Ethnobotanical reference lists it as a pain killer (analgesic). It is widely accepted as a treatment for nappy rash. Some folk remedies are simply twaddle. Others have never been properly investigated. But there are some that have been investigated scientifically to be truly effective, and marigold is one of them. Marigold has been the subject of extensive research and has been shown to have anti-inflammatory properties. It is even known in some detail how it might work. Pentacyclic triterpene trihydroxyalcohols, flavonoids, and saponins have been isolated from it, and these are believed to stimulate granulation and increase glycoprotein and collagen metabolism at wound sites. It also shows in vitro antimicrobial and immune-modulating properties.&#8221;</p>
<p>What&#8217;s the difference between the above statement and what I posted earlier &#8211; Scientific Marketing or what?</p>
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