Comments on: Health Benefits of Indium http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/spurious-health-benefits-of-indium.html Science Blog from Freelance Science Writer David Bradley Sat, 07 Nov 2009 00:41:44 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Dr D. http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/spurious-health-benefits-of-indium.html/comment-page-1#comment-631389 Dr D. Mon, 13 Jul 2009 18:43:04 +0000 http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/spurious-health-benefits-of-indium.html#comment-631389 Sorry to step on your toes. I have only reviewed this site a couple of times. In response to diet and exercise, this would depend on your goals. In general, the best diet for the general public based on my experience is a low carb diet. The simple carbs, refined carbs, white sugar and white flour, soda, energy drinks, etc should all be reduced or eliminted completely. Eat most of your food (80%) that is considered alkaline forming with 20% acid forming. This increases the pH to slightly alkaline and helps the body regenerate not degenerate and give you most the nutrients and enzymes needed for good health. This is just basic and quick but you should get the idea. You can find the info under acid alkaline diet and food charts. Exercise should be just enough to raise your heart rate and keep it there for 30-40 min. Treadmill of cycling are great. If you want to loose weight or if you have osteoperosis add weight resistant exercise to your program. This will help stimulate your own natural levels of hGH and will increase lean muscle mass and help burn more calories, increase circulation and increase your energy levels just to name a few things. As far as our prehistoric ancestors, they didn't have microwave ovens, flash freezing, food preservatives, fast food - McDonalds, Burger King or get food or drinks from cans, bottles, boxes or bags. With all that being said how many people do you know that do eat what they should? How many people exersice like they should? This is where the word SUPPLEMENT comes in to play i.e. trace minerals, vitamins, herbs, or indium. Most people need some sort of supplement to aid them to better level of nutrition. This will be different for each one of us. Just as two Chevy trucks may look the same on the outside, one is diesel and one is gas. Under the hood is where they differ. Therefore, each one of us may require a different supplement in different forms. This is again seen not only with supplements but also as with drugs. We all know someone that took a drug and it seemed to help but the next person got sick or even died from it. The same is true for supplements. Back to indium. I believe the same may be true of this compound, (my opinion). I have read site after site, reading the bad publicity and the statements or claims of benefits. I conclude from these readings that every one of these sites takes bits and pieces of truths to support their beliefs (again, my opinion). None appear to be completely non-biased. It would be nice if someone would be able to perform a non-biased, double blind study or two. Maybe, nothing would change and more than likely not. Those that are believers will argue the fact of any negative findings and those anti-belivers will do the opposite. This seems to be the case in my experience of other studies especially on Pharma-drugs. Once again I state that if you are concerned about the negative effect, either do pre and post tests to check for toxicity levels, monitor your liver, kidney and pancreatic panel, and a CBC with diff to make sure it's not effecting your immune system or organs of your body. Once again, if you feel bad on anything, something does not feel right, pay attention to your body and STOP IMMEADIATELY! FYI- Don't always believe what the FDA claims is safe or true, good or bad. One Example of many: Arthritis drug Vioxx (Rofecoxib) has been voluntarily recalled by Merck & Co Inc. worldwide. The move to pull the COX-2 inhibitor off the market on September 30, 2004 shocked the arthritis world and rocked the stock value of Merck. The Reason The decision to recall Vioxx followed a three year trial, known as APPROVe (Adenomatous Polyp Prevention on Vioxx), which was a multi-center, randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind study to determine the effect of Vioxx on the recurrence of neoplastic polyps of the large bowel in patients with a history of colorectal adenoma. The trial which begain in 2000, involved 2,600 patients and compared Vioxx 25 mg. to placebo. The study revealed that an increased risk of cardiovascular complications began 18 months after patients started taking Vioxx.( Note, they do give specifics on % of patients effected cardiovascular or colorectal adenoma, etc.) On Dec. 8, 2005, NEJM (The New England Journal of Medicine) dropped a bombshell in an editorial alleging that Merck withheld data and information that would affect conclusions drawn in the manuscript about the VIGOR (Vioxx Gastrointestinal Outcomes Research) study which appeared in the NEJM on November 23, 2000. See: Merck Withheld Pertinent Information About Vioxx I am not claiming to be an expert at indium, its compound forms, uses, benefits of adverse reactions. I am just stating my experience and opinions about some facts and some beliefs and the right for freedom of choice and to make people aware and educate them on the good or bad. Thanks Dr D. Sorry to step on your toes. I have only reviewed this site a couple of times. In response to diet and exercise, this would depend on your goals. In general, the best diet for the general public based on my experience is a low carb diet. The simple carbs, refined carbs, white sugar and white flour, soda, energy drinks, etc should all be reduced or eliminted completely. Eat most of your food (80%) that is considered alkaline forming with 20% acid forming. This increases the pH to slightly alkaline and helps the body regenerate not degenerate and give you most the nutrients and enzymes needed for good health. This is just basic and quick but you should get the idea. You can find the info under acid alkaline diet and food charts.
Exercise should be just enough to raise your heart rate and keep it there for 30-40 min. Treadmill of cycling are great. If you want to loose weight or if you have osteoperosis add weight resistant exercise to your program. This will help stimulate your own natural levels of hGH and will increase lean muscle mass and help burn more calories, increase circulation and increase your energy levels just to name a few things.
As far as our prehistoric ancestors, they didn’t have microwave ovens, flash freezing, food preservatives, fast food – McDonalds, Burger King or get food or drinks from cans, bottles, boxes or bags.
With all that being said how many people do you know that do eat what they should? How many people exersice like they should? This is where the word SUPPLEMENT comes in to play i.e. trace minerals, vitamins, herbs, or indium. Most people need some sort of supplement to aid them to better level of nutrition. This will be different for each one of us. Just as two Chevy trucks may look the same on the outside, one is diesel and one is gas. Under the hood is where they differ. Therefore, each one of us may require a different supplement in different forms. This is again seen not only with supplements but also as with drugs. We all know someone that took a drug and it seemed to help but the next person got sick or even died from it. The same is true for supplements.
Back to indium. I believe the same may be true of this compound, (my opinion). I have read site after site, reading the bad publicity and the statements or claims of benefits. I conclude from these readings that every one of these sites takes bits and pieces of truths to support their beliefs (again, my opinion). None appear to be completely non-biased. It would be nice if someone would be able to perform a non-biased, double blind study or two. Maybe, nothing would change and more than likely not. Those that are believers will argue the fact of any negative findings and those anti-belivers will do the opposite. This seems to be the case in my experience of other studies especially on Pharma-drugs.
Once again I state that if you are concerned about the negative effect, either do pre and post tests to check for toxicity levels, monitor your liver, kidney and pancreatic panel, and a CBC with diff to make sure it’s not effecting your immune system or organs of your body. Once again, if you feel bad on anything, something does not feel right, pay attention to your body and STOP IMMEADIATELY!

FYI- Don’t always believe what the FDA claims is safe or true, good or bad.

One Example of many:

Arthritis drug Vioxx (Rofecoxib) has been voluntarily recalled by Merck & Co Inc. worldwide.
The move to pull the COX-2 inhibitor off the market on September 30, 2004 shocked the arthritis world and rocked the stock value of Merck.

The Reason

The decision to recall Vioxx followed a three year trial, known as APPROVe (Adenomatous Polyp Prevention on Vioxx), which was a multi-center, randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind study to determine the effect of Vioxx on the recurrence of neoplastic polyps of the large bowel in patients with a history of colorectal adenoma.

The trial which begain in 2000, involved 2,600 patients and compared Vioxx 25 mg. to placebo. The study revealed that an increased risk of cardiovascular complications began 18 months after patients started taking Vioxx.( Note, they do give specifics on % of patients effected cardiovascular or colorectal adenoma, etc.)

On Dec. 8, 2005, NEJM (The New England Journal of Medicine) dropped a bombshell in an editorial alleging that Merck withheld data and information that would affect conclusions drawn in the manuscript about the VIGOR (Vioxx Gastrointestinal Outcomes Research) study which appeared in the NEJM on November 23, 2000. See: Merck Withheld Pertinent Information About Vioxx

I am not claiming to be an expert at indium, its compound forms, uses, benefits of adverse reactions. I am just stating my experience and opinions about some facts and some beliefs and the right for freedom of choice and to make people aware and educate them on the good or bad.

Thanks
Dr D.

]]> By: Peggy http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/spurious-health-benefits-of-indium.html/comment-page-1#comment-631379 Peggy Mon, 13 Jul 2009 13:57:46 +0000 http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/spurious-health-benefits-of-indium.html#comment-631379 I suffered from health problems for 18 years and went from doctor to doctor and no one could help me. The prescriptions they gave me only made things worse. I even saw a phyciatrist who after seeing me for a period of time that there was definetly something physical going on with me. He sent me to the hospital to have many tests run and still nothing. I started seeing an alternative doctor and doing lots of herbs, supplements, and organic foods and I am getting well.I took some precriptions and the alternative doctor encouraged them until my body healed. I had to take prevacid for my stomach until we healed it with supplements. I was very skeptical fo alternative medicine when I started but was desperate to try anything because no one had helped me up to that point. I have proof in my life that supplements work. I am taking indium and am not the least concerned about any side effects because it is such a small amount I am taking. Some prescription medicines have dangerous side effects. That being said I am not against prescripton meds-I firmly believe in integrated medicine. I was talking to someone who had been to an interaged medical clinic-I think she said it was at Duke University. This is the medicine of the future and whats best for the patient. I suffered from health problems for 18 years and went from doctor to doctor and no one could help me. The prescriptions they gave me only made things worse. I even saw a phyciatrist who after seeing me for a period of time that there was definetly something physical going on with me. He sent me to the hospital to have many tests run and still nothing. I started seeing an alternative doctor and doing lots of herbs, supplements, and organic foods and I am getting well.I took some precriptions and the alternative doctor encouraged them until my body healed. I had to take prevacid for my stomach until we healed it with supplements. I was very skeptical fo alternative medicine when I started but was desperate to try anything because no one had helped me up to that point. I have proof in my life that supplements work. I am taking indium and am not the least concerned about any side effects because it is such a small amount I am taking. Some prescription medicines have dangerous side effects. That being said I am not against prescripton meds-I firmly believe in integrated medicine. I was talking to someone who had been to an interaged medical clinic-I think she said it was at Duke University. This is the medicine of the future and whats best for the patient.

]]> By: Bill http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/spurious-health-benefits-of-indium.html/comment-page-1#comment-631313 Bill Fri, 10 Jul 2009 23:14:54 +0000 http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/spurious-health-benefits-of-indium.html#comment-631313 Dr. D had the best comment regarding Indium and other things we have being discussing here! Dr. D had the best comment regarding Indium and other things we have being discussing here!

]]> By: David Bradley http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/spurious-health-benefits-of-indium.html/comment-page-1#comment-631306 David Bradley Fri, 10 Jul 2009 15:47:03 +0000 http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/spurious-health-benefits-of-indium.html#comment-631306 Dr D... I don't think I have ever said pharma products did not have side effects. At least ten years before the mainstream media caught on to adverse drug reactions (ADRs) I was writing about them in my Alchemist column on ChemWeb! Sheesh. Keep up would you? As to supplements and indium in particular...if you're eating "better" (please define that) and exercising (how much, what kind?), then you shouldn't need supplements or indium. There is no distinction between stuffing down ibuprofen or indium, neither are components of the diet our prehistoric ancestors would have eaten, neither can be called natural in that sense. Dr D…

I don’t think I have ever said pharma products did not have side effects. At least ten years before the mainstream media caught on to adverse drug reactions (ADRs) I was writing about them in my Alchemist column on ChemWeb! Sheesh. Keep up would you?

As to supplements and indium in particular…if you’re eating “better” (please define that) and exercising (how much, what kind?), then you shouldn’t need supplements or indium. There is no distinction between stuffing down ibuprofen or indium, neither are components of the diet our prehistoric ancestors would have eaten, neither can be called natural in that sense.

]]> By: Dr D. http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/spurious-health-benefits-of-indium.html/comment-page-1#comment-631305 Dr D. Fri, 10 Jul 2009 15:03:04 +0000 http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/spurious-health-benefits-of-indium.html#comment-631305 That was the most ignorant thing I have ever heard. Pharmaceutical drugs are not good for you in any way. They are drugs and they have side effects. Do you ever read or watch tv and see all the different side effects they have on your health. They always tend to have a greater side effects and risks then benefits. In many cases however it may save your life and enable you to live longer, not necessarily a better life, but longer. The PDR or ( Physicians Desk Reference) can tell you about all of this. As far as "natural, holistic, vitamins, minerals, and herbs, yes these too can have side effects. They are not just bunk and quack medicine or a myth. However, evertime just one person has a negative effect to a supplement it is critisized and labeled unsafe and toxic, yet do any of you know that Tylenol is the number one (over the counter drug) leading cause of liver failure in the U.S. (Just releaed this week) Ibu profen and other NSAIDS or anti-inflammatories are the number leading cause of kidney failure and kidney damage in the U.S. Just the NSAIDS alone kill over 35,000 people every year people. Not any one vitamin, supplement in history or even all of them combined has ever done anything to a fraction. Bottom line folks eat better, exercise, live right is the best way to health. Health does not come from a pill. Drugs do not make you healthy. As far as indium goes, the merck manual does indicate that taken orally and in the proper dose is non-toxic. I am certian that the supplier is also very crucial. As with any product on the market be it food or supplement comes in different qualities. Try to find your supplements that are made with pharmacuetical grade products and labs. Be smart with everythig you take, if you feel worse stop. You can have your hair tested for mineral levels including toxicity before and after if you choose to see if indium or any minerals toxic or not may exist in your system. Open your eyes and read, stop being brain washed, do your own research and stop believing everthing you read on the internet. Remember that any one can right anything, this does not make it so. That was the most ignorant thing I have ever heard. Pharmaceutical drugs are not good for you in any way. They are drugs and they have side effects. Do you ever read or watch tv and see all the different side effects they have on your health. They always tend to have a greater side effects and risks then benefits. In many cases however it may save your life and enable you to live longer, not necessarily a better life, but longer. The PDR or ( Physicians Desk Reference) can tell you about all of this. As far as “natural, holistic, vitamins, minerals, and herbs, yes these too can have side effects. They are not just bunk and quack medicine or a myth. However, evertime just one person has a negative effect to a supplement it is critisized and labeled unsafe and toxic, yet do any of you know that Tylenol is the number one (over the counter drug) leading cause of liver failure in the U.S. (Just releaed this week) Ibu profen and other NSAIDS or anti-inflammatories are the number leading cause of kidney failure and kidney damage in the U.S. Just the NSAIDS alone kill over 35,000 people every year people. Not any one vitamin, supplement in history or even all of them combined has ever done anything to a fraction.
Bottom line folks eat better, exercise, live right is the best way to health. Health does not come from a pill. Drugs do not make you healthy.
As far as indium goes, the merck manual does indicate that taken orally and in the proper dose is non-toxic. I am certian that the supplier is also very crucial. As with any product on the market be it food or supplement comes in different qualities. Try to find your supplements that are made with pharmacuetical grade products and labs. Be smart with everythig you take, if you feel worse stop. You can have your hair tested for mineral levels including toxicity before and after if you choose to see if indium or any minerals toxic or not may exist in your system.
Open your eyes and read, stop being brain washed, do your own research and stop believing everthing you read on the internet. Remember that any one can right anything, this does not make it so.

]]> By: Guest http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/spurious-health-benefits-of-indium.html/comment-page-1#comment-630776 Guest Sat, 13 Jun 2009 04:21:40 +0000 http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/spurious-health-benefits-of-indium.html#comment-630776 Merck Index - 9th edition (page 655) 4829 - Indium... Indium salts are relatively non-toxic when administered orally; highly toxic when administered subcutaneously or intravenously. 4835 Indium, Sulfate (Indium salt that used in most health supplements) MLD [Minimum Lethal Dose] in rabbits: 1.8 g / kg orally. This is approximately 6.3 oz for 220 lbs Other Indium compounds (e.g. Telluride, Trichloride) are very poisonous. Typical supplements contain 1 milligram Indium Sulfate per drop. Dosage of 4 drops per day yields insignificant evidence of dosage beneficial or detrimental effect on the human body. While Indium Sulfate is relatively harmless the base purity of the Indium used is critical. Indium typically has trace level impurities of lead, cadmium, or nickel. Indium claims to increase red blood cell oxygenation, increases glandular Manganese, Zinc and Copper. Indium poisoning induce cell necrosis usually involving blood, liver, kidney and heart. Indium Sulfate has an HMIS rating of 2. HMIS - Hazardous Materials Identification System The 2 rating mean: Temporary or minor injury may occur Merck Index – 9th edition (page 655)
4829 – Indium… Indium salts are relatively non-toxic when administered orally; highly toxic when administered subcutaneously or intravenously.

4835 Indium, Sulfate (Indium salt that used in most health supplements)
MLD [Minimum Lethal Dose] in rabbits: 1.8 g / kg orally.
This is approximately 6.3 oz for 220 lbs
Other Indium compounds (e.g. Telluride, Trichloride) are very poisonous.

Typical supplements contain 1 milligram Indium Sulfate per drop.
Dosage of 4 drops per day yields insignificant evidence of dosage beneficial or detrimental effect on the human body.

While Indium Sulfate is relatively harmless the base purity of the Indium used is critical. Indium typically has trace level impurities of lead, cadmium, or nickel.
Indium claims to increase red blood cell oxygenation, increases glandular Manganese, Zinc and Copper. Indium poisoning induce cell necrosis usually involving blood, liver, kidney and heart.

Indium Sulfate has an HMIS rating of 2.
HMIS – Hazardous Materials Identification System
The 2 rating mean: Temporary or minor injury may occur

]]> By: David Bradley http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/spurious-health-benefits-of-indium.html/comment-page-1#comment-630451 David Bradley Tue, 26 May 2009 16:46:56 +0000 http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/spurious-health-benefits-of-indium.html#comment-630451 Lucky...I've got no interest in quoting the drug cartels, the FDA runs the show in another country as far as I'm concerned, but I'm afraid the so-called "holistic" way of life is a myth. I am all for avoiding unnecessary drugs and for exercising, eating good quality food, and finding plenty of time to relax. If that's what you mean by holistic, then sure...but I am afraid there is little distinction between taking a herbal remedy or other "alternative" supplement and a pharma drug, except that pharma drugs will have had some degree of toxicology and testing, whereas you're taking it on trust that a random concoction of herbs and heavy metals is not going to do you harm. I Googled Stemulite and find all kinds of fanciful ideas about it being a natural alternative to steroids...well...there's nothing more natural than testosterone, just because a product gets tagged with natural, herbal, and holistic doesn't mean it's perfect. There are no panaceas in alt med nor conventional medicine. My mantra would be to avoid ingesting anything that isn't food or drink. Supplements, herbals, tonics, tinctures, pharma products, all of it. Unless you're life depends on it, of course, or the benefits strongly outweigh the risks. Lucky…I’ve got no interest in quoting the drug cartels, the FDA runs the show in another country as far as I’m concerned, but I’m afraid the so-called “holistic” way of life is a myth. I am all for avoiding unnecessary drugs and for exercising, eating good quality food, and finding plenty of time to relax. If that’s what you mean by holistic, then sure…but I am afraid there is little distinction between taking a herbal remedy or other “alternative” supplement and a pharma drug, except that pharma drugs will have had some degree of toxicology and testing, whereas you’re taking it on trust that a random concoction of herbs and heavy metals is not going to do you harm.

I Googled Stemulite and find all kinds of fanciful ideas about it being a natural alternative to steroids…well…there’s nothing more natural than testosterone, just because a product gets tagged with natural, herbal, and holistic doesn’t mean it’s perfect. There are no panaceas in alt med nor conventional medicine.

My mantra would be to avoid ingesting anything that isn’t food or drink. Supplements, herbals, tonics, tinctures, pharma products, all of it. Unless you’re life depends on it, of course, or the benefits strongly outweigh the risks.

]]> By: Lucky ( real name ) http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/spurious-health-benefits-of-indium.html/comment-page-1#comment-630450 Lucky ( real name ) Tue, 26 May 2009 14:14:57 +0000 http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/spurious-health-benefits-of-indium.html#comment-630450 I was doing my own research on Stemulite and Indium ( the main ingredient ) when I ran across this site. After reading the last 32 post I have to laugh. Everyone of you that left a post are trying to convince David that Indium is safe to take. Clearly he does NOT believe in the Holistic way of life as he quoted the bi-laws of the drug cartels in his article ( FDA and Pharmaceutical companies ) Find a book titled "The Calling of An Angel" and read it.There you will learn about Essiac Tea and the truth about the FDA. Be advised this book is on the Goverment watch list. As for as Indium the FDA has approved its use in Stemulite. If you want to take it, do your own research then make a decision. Do or Do Not. As for me I am taking it. I am 51 years old and I am a corporate pilot. I take a flight physical every six months and an EKG one a year. I havent lost my medical yet. Need I say more about Indium. I was doing my own research on Stemulite and Indium ( the main ingredient ) when I ran across this site. After reading the last 32 post I have to laugh. Everyone of you that left a post are trying to convince David that Indium is safe to take. Clearly he does NOT believe in the Holistic way of life as he quoted the bi-laws of the drug cartels in his article ( FDA and Pharmaceutical companies ) Find a book titled “The Calling of An Angel” and read it.There you will learn about Essiac Tea and the truth about the FDA. Be advised this book is on the Goverment watch list. As for as Indium the FDA has approved its use in Stemulite. If you want to take it, do your own research then make a decision. Do or Do Not. As for me I am taking it. I am 51 years old and I am a corporate pilot. I take a flight physical every six months and an EKG one a year. I havent lost my medical yet. Need I say more about Indium.

]]> By: David Bradley http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/spurious-health-benefits-of-indium.html/comment-page-1#comment-630295 David Bradley Tue, 19 May 2009 15:03:47 +0000 http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/spurious-health-benefits-of-indium.html#comment-630295 @Bill What a great rational response...I don't think I ever advocated anyone taking pharmaceutical drugs for the sake of it. But, people should be warned, that just because they think of something as natural, vitamin or mineral doesn't mean that there are no side-effects. It's an ignorant attitude and a stupid stance to take. After all, what's so natural about a synthetic indium salt compacted into a tablet? @Bill What a great rational response…I don’t think I ever advocated anyone taking pharmaceutical drugs for the sake of it. But, people should be warned, that just because they think of something as natural, vitamin or mineral doesn’t mean that there are no side-effects. It’s an ignorant attitude and a stupid stance to take. After all, what’s so natural about a synthetic indium salt compacted into a tablet?

]]> By: Bill http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/spurious-health-benefits-of-indium.html/comment-page-1#comment-630294 Bill Tue, 19 May 2009 13:57:33 +0000 http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/spurious-health-benefits-of-indium.html#comment-630294 It´s so toxic !! I think you should see a doctor before you get many side-effect and will end at hospital. Indium will kill you: The only thing thats good for you is pharmaceutical-drugs ,forget vitamins and minerals they will not help you. Long live Pharmaceutical drugs!!! It´s so toxic !! I think you should see a doctor before you get many side-effect and will end at hospital. Indium will kill you: The only thing thats good for you is pharmaceutical-drugs ,forget vitamins and minerals they will not help you.

Long live Pharmaceutical drugs!!!

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